Willy: Currently in Paxil poop out withdrawal and thinking of cold turkey quitting all meds. I can’t take it anymore. Any help appreciated

[Willy]

@AAOffZ Thanks for the input. I just now cut and weighed 7 days worth. 
 

 

 

[Willy]

9 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

There is a fair percentage pf people who find that they cannot tolerate using the liquid. That is one reason we recommend doing a cross taper, to find out if there are going to be any problems.

 

Dry cutting the tablets will be easiest if you grind them into a powder and weigh out your dose from there. Order some "0" gelcaps to put the powder in.

 

LostInCanada did a great job in describing the process of getting started with dry cutting.

I just scrapped the pill until it was the correct weight. Do you not recommend that?

[LostInCanada]

1 minute ago, Willy said:

I just scrapped the pill until it was the correct weight. Do you not recommend that?

That's great. Whatever works for you. Some prefer grinding, others prefer how you did it. It is personal preference. 👍

[brassmonkey]

That is an effective way of doing it. It works well at the larger doses, but it becomes very tricky to hit the exact dose as the pill gets smaller. That's the way I started out, but I switched to powder to maintain the accuracy of the dose.

[Willy]

Also do we know if the active ingredient is distributed evenly throughout a paroxetine 40mg tablet?

 

Seems like that is most important if pill cutting and weighing

[LostInCanada]

20 minutes ago, Willy said:

do we know if the active ingredient is distributed evenly throughout a paroxetine 40mg tablet?

Great question. I think we all have asked this. The drug is distributed evenly throughout the tablet thankfully.

[Willy]

@LostInCanada Zydus pharmaceuticals is the manufacturer of my paroxetine 

[LostInCanada]

6 minutes ago, Willy said:

Zydus pharmaceuticals

How much does your 40 mg pill weigh? I understand zydus also has 30 mg, 20 mg and 10 mg sizes as well which is great as you taper down. Definitely stick with this manufacturer if at all possible. 

[Willy]

6 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

How much does your 40 mg pill weigh? I understand zydus also has 30 mg, 20 mg and 10 mg sizes as well which is great as you taper down. Definitely stick with this manufacturer if at all possible. 

A ten pill average was .503 so I just divided that by 40 to get the weight per 1mgai. 
How would you calculate the mgai and mgpw ? I seem to be complicating it and not thinking clearly

[LostInCanada]

Your method is good. 

If I used my method, it would look like this.

36/40=n/.503

n= .4527 So same answer just a different method.

Always round up, so 0.453g

Hope I didn't confuse you with my math lol.

[Willy]

Today was my first paroxetine reduction using @brassmonkey method. Hoping for some relief shortly. 2.5% seems like such a small reduction. 
 

I’ve been waiting a long time for this day when I can begin the process of eliminating this poison. 

[LostInCanada]

@Willy it is a great idea to keep a daily journal or make a spreadsheet. Record your symptoms and give them a 1-10 rating. It helps to see if there are patterns etc. 

Be aware too if the wave and windows that occur throughout the process. They are a necessary part but the waves are definitely not fun. Always remember they do pass and a window awaits.

Glad you are doing the Brassmonkey slide.

 

 

[LostInCanada]

 

 

[Willy]

21 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

Your method is good. 

If I used my method, it would look like this.

36/40=n/.503

n= .4527 So same answer just a different method.

Always round up, so 0.453g

Hope I didn't confuse you with my math lol.

That’s a much easier calculation.

 

Do you measure weight for each pill and calculate dose or do you just use an average weight for all pills in the bottle?

 

 

[LostInCanada]

13 minutes ago, Willy said:

Do you measure weight for each pill and calculate dose or do you just use an average weight

Moving forward just use the average weight of 0.503g (503 mg). You do not have to do this for each new bottle. Only if you change pill size but in reality a 20 mg should be half the weight. At least they are with my manufacturer. 

So week 1 your pill weight=.491g

Week 2=.479g

Week 3=.467g

Week 4=.455g

You take the full 10% divide by 4 and just subtract the amount each week. 

Then hold for 2 weeks. You can hold at any time you are struggling with a drop. 

Are those the figures you got? 

Then the next taper will start with 10% off of 0.455g. 

Hope that makes sense. 

[Willy]

12 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

Moving forward just use the average weight of 0.503g (503 mg). You do not have to do this for each new bottle. Only if you change pill size but in reality a 20 mg should be half the weight. At least they are with my manufacturer. 

So week 1 your pill weight=.491g

Week 2=.479g

Week 3=.467g

Week 4=.455g

You take the full 10% divide by 4 and just subtract the amount each week. 

Then hold for 2 weeks. You can hold at any time you are struggling with a drop. 

Are those the figures you got? 

Then the next taper will start with 10% off of 0.455g. 

Hope that makes sense. 

That is extremely helpful. 
 

Thank you so much for helping me sort this out!!

[LostInCanada]

5 minutes ago, Willy said:

Thank you so much for helping me sort this out!!

You are welcome. This process can be daunting to say the least. 

[brassmonkey]

Divide 503 by 40

 

This will give the mgai per 1mgpw. It is also know as the AIC (Active Ingredient Concentration)

 

The easiest way to calculate a 2.5% reduction is to multiply the mgai or mgpw by 0.975

 

40 X 0.975 = 39

503 X 0.975 = 490.425 rounded to 491

[getofflex]

On 7/27/2024 at 6:28 PM, Willy said:

I notice that the most extreme symptoms occur for the 5-7 hr period after taking paroxetine dose which I take in morning. After that symptoms are more manageable.

If this is the case,  I believe you will feel better as you reduce.  This shows that you are also having an adverse reaction to the drugs.  I'm glad to hear that the symptoms are more manageable after this.  It looks like you are getting a lot of good support from other people here, which is great!  I think you are doing well to go with the Brass Monkey Slide method. 

Edited July 29 by getofflex

[Willy]

4 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Divide 503 by 40

 

This will give the mgai per 1mgpw. It is also know as the AIC (Active Ingredient Concentration)

 

The easiest way to calculate a 2.5% reduction is to multiply the mgai or mgpw by 0.975

 

40 X 0.975 = 39

503 X 0.975 = 490.425 rounded to 491

So all I really need to do is multiply the previous mgpw by .975 until I’m finished tapering?

[Willy]

1 hour ago, getofflex said:

If this is the case,  I believe you will feel better as you reduce.  This shows that you are also having an adverse reaction to the drugs.  I'm glad to hear that the symptoms are more manageable after this.  It looks like you are getting a lot of good support from other people here, which is great!  I think you are doing well to go with the Brass Monkey Slide method. 

I sure hope symptoms ease. If not I don’t think I’ll survive this for years

 

Thanks for everything!

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, Willy said:

don’t think I’ll survive this for years

Don’t overthink it. Just one day at a time. Be kind to yourself and accepting of this process. You will get there. It gets better. Try to look for things to be grateful for in little everyday things. This is humbling experience and it is okay to be happy if you are able to shower or make a meal. Find things you can enjoy- reading a novel, doing a puzzle, playing a video game. Whatever can help you keep moving forward. 👍

[brassmonkey]

Thats all there is to it. The same calculation for either weigh of dose or strength of dose. Once you get towards the end of your taper the physical size of the dose will start to be a problem, as it will be quite small, and the scales will have problems weighing it. But that is something for a later time.

[Willy]

Thanks everyone!

[Willy]

So I met with my Dr today for the first time since starting tapering. It went about as I expected. She wanted to add Wellbutrin. I said no. Then I informed her I wanted to reduce paroxetine and explained the @brassmonkey method and she thought I was overreacting. Told me I could just reduce by 5mg or 10mg to get off. Anyway I was finally able to get her onboard with my plan. Just told her all she needs to do is prescribe the meds and I’ll handle the taper. These docs really have no clue about any of this

[LostInCanada]

1 minute ago, Willy said:

Told me I could just reduce by 5mg or 10mg to get off.

What a joke

2 minutes ago, Willy said:

Just told her all she needs to do is prescribe the meds and I’ll handle the taper

Good for you 👍

[Catina7]

26 minutes ago, Willy said:

These docs really have no clue about any of this

 

You can say that again!  Never in my life have I seen it where the patients have to educate the doctors.   I'm so glad you stuck to your guns in dealing with your doctor.  Just keep getting your prescription so you can take matters into your own hands and do a slow and SAFE taper!  Much success to you.  You got this!  

[Schmeg82]

18 hours ago, Willy said:

So I met with my Dr today for the first time since starting tapering. It went about as I expected. She wanted to add Wellbutrin. I said no. Then I informed her I wanted to reduce paroxetine and explained the @brassmonkey method and she thought I was overreacting. Told me I could just reduce by 5mg or 10mg to get off. Anyway I was finally able to get her onboard with my plan. Just told her all she needs to do is prescribe the meds and I’ll handle the taper. These docs really have no clue about any of this

Wow that’s crazy, exactly why I’m in the predicament I’m in!!!! They don’t have a clue!  Wish we could put them all on these meds then tell them to cut them in half after a few years.  I’m glad you’re advocating for yourself and doing it the right way!  

[Willy]

29 minutes ago, Schmeg82 said:

Wow that’s crazy, exactly why I’m in the predicament I’m in!!!! They don’t have a clue!  Wish we could put them all on these meds then tell them to cut them in half after a few years.  I’m glad you’re advocating for yourself and doing it the right way!  

Yeah I’m in this polydrugged mess because Dr told me to CT benzos. I never had a single one of these symptoms until these drugs were given to me. 

[Schmeg82]

Just now, Willy said:

Yeah I’m in this polydrugged mess because Dr told me to CT benzos. I never had a single one of these symptoms until these drugs were given to me. 

I can’t wait until you get off of them and beat this!!! You’re going to feel great again, I know I can’t wait for myself either! I’m glad you’re starting with the Paxil.

[Willy]

Feeling rough today. I’m having a difficult time wrapping my head around the fact that I’m going to be like this for years. It adds to my already depressed state.

 

i used to spend my days on a boat offshore fishing on the Atlantic Ocean. Unfortunately I’m not well enough to captain my boat safely. 
 

Not sure how I’m going to deal with this but I promised my family I would fight through it for a year and reassess the situation at that point

[LostInCanada]

25 minutes ago, Willy said:

already depressed state.

Have you been able to look for some free online courses for depression or CBT? Also there are alot of free apps to help. 

27 minutes ago, Willy said:

difficult time wrapping my head around the fact that I’m going to be like this for years

Try not to think to far ahead. I have found that I needed to adjust my expectations and find new simple things that could bring me joy. Are you able to do a walk in nature daily... even 10 minutes outside can help us emotionally. 

 

31 minutes ago, Willy said:

I promised my family I would fight

That's a good promise. One day at a time. 

 

[LostInCanada]

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

[LostInCanada]

Just checking, are you avoiding caffeine, msg, sodium nitrates, tobacco, alcohol, chocolate, green tea, etc. Keeping foods as unprocessed and simple as possible is good. Also stay hydrated. 

Have you been able to add magnesium bisglycinate or fish oil?

[Willy]

3 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

Just checking, are you avoiding caffeine, msg, sodium nitrates, tobacco, alcohol, chocolate, green tea, etc. Keeping foods as unprocessed and simple as possible is good. Also stay hydrated. 

Have you been able to add magnesium bisglycinate or fish oil?

I do eat well. I don’t drink. I gave up caffeine and nicotine and sugar last week to start taper. That was difficult because I was a daily cigar smoker and that’s just another thing I really enjoy that I had to give up. These drugs really stole everything from me

[LostInCanada]

4 minutes ago, Willy said:

daily cigar smoker

Though quitting is good, it does make your body have to adjust to one more thing. This alone can make a person feel awful as well for some time.

Same with the caffeine. You are basically dealing with caffeine withdrawal, nicotine withdrawal and paxil poop out and withdrawal.

Honestly that is a lot and no wonder you feel depressed. Kudos to you. 

Just be patient, you will feel better. Just let your body heal.