Cheeky: on Paxil for 23 years needing advice

[Thorin]

15 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

I know but there will be no responsibilities and I need a break from everything . 

Sounds like you should go then! Holiday may be exactly what you need.

[Cheeky]

16 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Sounds like you should go then! Holiday may be exactly what you need.

Yeah I'm just not going to let this wreck everything. Today I'm feeling more positive 

[AAOffZ]

Hi @Cheeky!

 

Just sharing my recent experience traveling in WD. Albeit, not as intense in length or adventure as yours, I did go on a cruise with my husband and left my three children behind.
 

I was VERY worried the trip would be awful. Turned out wonderful. The break from the stress of chores, daily life and caring for children was surprisingly helpful, even with the chemical anxiety I was experiencing about leaving them (I normally don’t worry about this sort of thing even before meds, so I knew it was WD-related). I even wasn’t able to listen to my sleep meditation that I use every night, and I still slept okay!

 

I think you will have a swell time. Sit down and have rests, drinks lots of salted water! 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, AAOffZ said:

Hi @Cheeky!

 

Just sharing my recent experience traveling in WD. Albeit, not as intense in length or adventure as yours, I did go on a cruise with my husband and left my three children behind.
 

I was VERY worried the trip would be awful. Turned out wonderful. The break from the stress of chores, daily life and caring for children was surprisingly helpful, even with the chemical anxiety I was experiencing about leaving them (I normally don’t worry about this sort of thing even before meds, so I knew it was WD-related). I even wasn’t able to listen to my sleep meditation that I use every night, and I still slept okay!

 

I think you will have a swell time. Sit down and have rests, drinks lots of salted water! 

Thankyou @AAOffZthat helps alot . It will be a break and today I woke up better so I hope it continues . 

[Mads1202]

@Cheeky Hi Cheeky! I want you to know that you are strong! This is not an easy time for anyone. I have been off of meds fully since May so I definitely know what you are going through.

 

i wanted to give you encourage on your upcoming Europe vacation. My husband and I just went to Hawaii with some friends and I was very nervous that I would be in a wave during my vacation and not enjoy it. I had doubts about cancelling as well since it was not going to be a “relaxing” trip. I am SO glad I did not give into anxiety and let it control my life. We went and I had an amazing time. I had small bouts of symptoms pop up but I did not let that ruin my time in the prettiest place ever! 
 

Obviously this decision is going to be up to you and you need to make the best decision for yourself. You can always take it easy while there and listen to your body. Good luck!  we are rooting for you 

[Cheeky]

20 minutes ago, Mads1202 said:

@Cheeky Hi Cheeky! I want you to know that you are strong! This is not an easy time for anyone. I have been off of meds fully since May so I definitely know what you are going through.

 

i wanted to give you encourage on your upcoming Europe vacation. My husband and I just went to Hawaii with some friends and I was very nervous that I would be in a wave during my vacation and not enjoy it. I had doubts about cancelling as well since it was not going to be a “relaxing” trip. I am SO glad I did not give into anxiety and let it control my life. We went and I had an amazing time. I had small bouts of symptoms pop up but I did not let that ruin my time in the prettiest place ever! 
 

Obviously this decision is going to be up to you and you need to make the best decision for yourself. You can always take it easy while there and listen to your body. Good luck!  we are rooting for you 

Thankyou so much for your encouraging words , it means alot . I can't believe how there are so many beautiful people like yourself coming past and giving me support . I hope one day I will be were you are off and healing . 
huggs to you 🌸

[Cheeky]

Hey @brassmonkey, 

I would love some of your advise as I think I may have shoot myself in the foot tapering two drugs at the same time and going too fast . So basically as you see in my signature I've crashed and am holding my tapper until I feel more stable . I was doing a micro taper every day for four weeks and no hold . It was going okay untill I increased my percent and didn't listen to my body signals and just pushed through the symptoms.  I value your opinion and would like to know what I should do to continue on what would be my approach.

[Sebas]

On 7/7/2024 at 2:24 AM, Cheeky said:

Yeah everything is 90% better now. I've been pretty much back to normal the last week. I feel so grateful to have gotten out of that bad 6 week patch . I really though I was permanently doomed.  
    I'm going to hold for a few months to let things settle down , even though I dont want too , I know I need to

Considering you were 90% your old self in july and haven't changed drug dose it is very likely a source is triggering/interacting with wd. Evaluate if you have introduced anything new over the last 2 weeks (since wave has flared up). Maybe a supplement, food, creme  or chemical. Some ingredients can have very nasty outcome. Waves are often, very often triggered. Look for cause and adjust. Hope then you can enjoy your holidays.

 

Feel free to ask if anything should appear suspicious.

 

Bye Sebas

[brassmonkey]

Hi Cheeky-- I think you understand what is happening. Looks like skipping the holds and increasing the percentage tripped off a wave. I think for now just hold where you are, go on your trip and forget about everything. Don't worry about the wd symptoms and just focus on enjoying the trip. Then when you get back continue to hold for several weeks to readjust after the trip. then resume your taper at the smaller reductions and be sure to add in the holds. 

 

Flying from Oz to Europe is a very long trip and can play havoc with your dosing schedule. I usually count travel days as lost and try to take my doses by the clock. Then in the new country I switched to my normal times according to the local clock. So morning doses were in the morning and evening doses were in the evening. Then did the same on the return flight.  It depends on how sensitive you are to your dosing schedule.

 

The important thing is to let the tapering and such take a back seat and enjoy the trip. What countries are you going to?

[Sebas]

15 hours ago, Cheeky said:

. I was doing a micro taper every day for four weeks and no hold . It was going okay untill I increased my percent and didn't listen to my body signals and just pushed through the symptoms.

If you don't take holds, even when things SEEM or present to be okay, wd symptoms will be silently building up in the background. Hold periods are essential. Especially when taking no holds and at the same time increasing taper percentage. Tapering has then gone faster then your CNS can keep up with while in the meantime re-adjusting autonomic process.

 

If this is the case (and not the above) you will need a longer hold to re stabilize. Eventually you will get back at taper baseline. And next time i asume, just like me, will respect - perhaps embrace - holds.

 

Time is our friend but when we go too fast it becomes our enemy.

 

(Sorry for interfering but thought brass might not be available at the time and seemed urgent).

 

Bye Sebas

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

usually count travel days as lost and try to take my doses by the clock.

So does that mean I take my Paxil Australian time when

im over there . I have to take the Seroquel before bed as it will make me groggy . 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Then when you get back continue to hold for several weeks to readjust after the trip. then resume your taper at the smaller reductions and be sure to add in the holds. 

I think the rabbit went too fast and was just trying to get to 10mg . I basically went from 20mg to 10mg in a year and it all caught up on me slowly . Im

goong to wait to the end of year if I have to and then try a 5% to see how that goes . 
The tortoise always wins the race . 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, Sebas said:

If you don't take holds, even when things SEEM or present to be okay, wd symptoms will be silently building up in the background. Hold periods are essential. Especially when taking no holds and at the same time increasing taper percentage. Tapering has then gone faster then your CNS can keep up with while in the meantime re-adjusting autonomic process.

 

If this is the case (and not the above) you will need a longer hold to re stabilize. Eventually you will get back at taper baseline. And next time i asume, just like me, will respect - perhaps embrace - holds.

 

Time is our friend but when we go too fast it becomes our enemy.

 

(Sorry for interfering but thought brass might not be available at the time and seemed urgent).

 

Bye Sebas

Yeah I wasn't feeling the best , I was just pushing through it to get to 10mg . It my fault and deep down I knew this would happen I was just hopeimg it wouldn't . 
Im going to hold to the end of the year and reevaluate then . 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, Sebas said:

Time is our friend but when we go too fast it becomes our enemy.

That's my problem , I still haven't learnt my lesson . 

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, Sebas said:

Sorry for interfering but thought brass might not be available at the time and seemed urgent).

No I so appreciate your help and can't thank you enough . 

[Cheeky]

3 hours ago, Sebas said:

Considering you were 90% your old self in july and haven't changed drug dose it is very likely a source is triggering/interacting with wd. Evaluate if you have introduced anything new over the last 2 weeks (since wave has flared up). Maybe a supplement, food, creme  or chemical. Some ingredients can have very nasty outcome. Waves are often, very often triggered. Look for cause and adjust. Hope then you can enjoy your holidays.

 

Feel free to ask if anything should appear suspicious.

 

Bye Sebas

I have been stressed out at work . I work full time in my bussiness and am raising two boys . I do alot and never stop , a little ocd in controlling my life . 

[Thorin]

2 hours ago, Cheeky said:

I think the rabbit went too fast and was just trying to get to 10mg . I basically went from 20mg to 10mg in a year and it all caught up on me slowly . Im

goong to wait to the end of year if I have to and then try a 5% to see how that goes . 
The tortoise always wins the race . 

I’ve slowed down to 5% per month and am seeing (slow) improvements as a I taper.

[Cheeky]

5 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I’ve slowed down to 5% per month and am seeing (slow) improvements as a I taper.

@Thorin I'm so annoyed at myself , I thought I would just tough it through. Exercise everyday , eat well no sugar , cold therapy and still Bam . Lesson learnt . 
Now I have to wait till I stabilise ..............

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

@Thorin I'm so annoyed at myself , I thought I would just tough it through. Exercise everyday , eat well no sugar , cold therapy and still Bam . Lesson learnt . 
Now I have to wait till I stabilise ..............

I’ve done the same thing. We don’t know we’re going to crash until we crash. Don’t be hard on yourself,

[Sebas]

8 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Yeah I wasn't feeling the best , I was just pushing through it to get to 10mg . It my fault and deep down I knew this would happen I was just hopeimg it wouldn't . 
Im going to hold to the end of the year and reevaluate then . 

Could you update your signature to august 2024?

Thx,

Bye Sebas

[Cheeky]

1 hour ago, Sebas said:

Could you update your signature to august 2024?

Thx,

Bye Sebas

Okay no worries 

[Willy]

@Cheeky hoping you stabilize quickly so you can enjoy your trip.

[brassmonkey]

Take the paxil on Australian time while flying, then change to local time when you arrive. Do the same both ways. Take the other at night like usual. You may want to take it at the start of the flight to make it easier to sleep on the plane.

 

Going from 20 to 10 in a year is a good taper rate. At 10% a month it would take 6 months. At 10% Brassmonkey style it should take 9 months.

[Cheeky]

7 hours ago, Willy said:

@Cheeky hoping you stabilize quickly so you can enjoy your trip.

Thanks willy

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Take the paxil on Australian time while flying, then change to local time when you arrive. Do the same both ways. Take the other at night like usual. You may want to take it at the start of the flight to make it easier to sleep on the plane.

 

Going from 20 to 10 in a year is a good taper rate. At 10% a month it would take 6 months. At 10% Brassmonkey style it should take 9 months.

Thanks for the info . 
So basically do you think the reason I'm 

feeling like this now is becouse 

. I went too fast for my sensitive nervous system 

.2 Becouse I didn't have any breaks . 
3 I tapered 2 drugs at  the same time . 
4 Or am I in tolerance 

[Sebas]

Dear Cheeky,

 

Been reading back.

 

It's a combination of:

1. No monthly holds/pushing through

2. Increasing percentages will doing this

3. Seroquel fridge issues which further messed up CNS

 

that has thrown you off temporarily.

 

When CNS becomes volatile then two ssri drugs may be interacting more amongst eachother.

 

Eventually this will be sorted out it just takes time. For the future: Prevention is better than cure. 

 

Bye Sebas

[brassmonkey]

I think a combination of tapering two drugs at once and not taking breaks. Taking breaks is very important. There is a lot of healing that takes place in the background and if it is not allowed to resolve then it builds up until it reaches a breaking point and causes a crash. In this case it is causing a wave, so you caught it in time. Have a nice long hold over your vacation.

 

The changes in dose schedule because of the flights may cause some problems if you are very sensitive to your dose timing. Going from Oz to Europe will throw your normal dose time off by around twelve hours. If you normally take it in the morning, then you would be changing to taking it in the evening. Which could make it hard to remember.  Making it quite inconvenient to keep taking it on Oz time.

[LostInCanada]

On 8/27/2024 at 3:26 PM, Cheeky said:

have been stressed out at work . I work full time in my bussiness and am raising two boys . I do alot and never stop , a little ocd in controlling my life .

You are doing amazing. I think a nice hold and a fantastic vacation is definitely deserved.

What countries will you be visiting? Enjoy ❤️

[Cheeky]

2 hours ago, LostInCanada said:

You are doing amazing. I think a nice hold and a fantastic vacation is definitely deserved.

What countries will you be visiting? Enjoy ❤️

Thankyou for your words . I will be holding that's for sure . I'm going to Paris, Italy, Spain and London . Its a dream come true , I just wish I was in a better system state . 

[LostInCanada]

1 hour ago, Cheeky said:

Paris, Italy, Spain and London

The great thing is if you feel like going to a museum you can or you can just chill at the park or a cafe. I love Musee d'Orsay and it's not as crowded as the Louvre. Paris is a very easy city to navigate and so is London. I've only been to Barcelona in Spain but again the art, food and the sea is fantastic. If you are doing Rome, Venice or Florence, the pace is as calm as you need it to be. Without the stress of work and kids you will never want to leave. ❤️👍

[Cheeky]

11 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

The great thing is if you feel like going to a museum you can or you can just chill at the park or a cafe. I love Musee d'Orsay and it's not as crowded as the Louvre. Paris is a very easy city to navigate and so is London. I've only been to Barcelona in Spain but again the art, food and the sea is fantastic. If you are doing Rome, Venice or Florence, the pace is as calm as you need it to be. Without the stress of work and kids you will never want to leave. ❤️👍

I just can't wait to have time off . What percentage are you doing your drops ?

[Cheeky]

5 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

I think a combination of tapering two drugs at once and not taking breaks. Taking breaks is very important. There is a lot of healing that takes place in the background and if it is not allowed to resolve then it builds up until it reaches a breaking point and causes a crash. In this case it is causing a wave, so you caught it in time. Have a nice long hold over your vacation.

 

The changes in dose schedule because of the flights may cause some problems if you are very sensitive to your dose timing. Going from Oz to Europe will throw your normal dose time off by around twelve hours. If you normally take it in the morning, then you would be changing to taking it in the evening. Which could make it hard to remember.  Making it quite inconvenient to keep taking it on Oz time.

Thanks for the input . Once I start tapering again I think the brassmonkey slide might be better to try . I Like the idea of the holds . 

[Cheeky]

5 hours ago, Sebas said:

Dear Cheeky,

 

Been reading back.

 

It's a combination of:

1. No monthly holds/pushing through

2. Increasing percentages will doing this

3. Seroquel fridge issues which further messed up CNS

 

that has thrown you off temporarily.

 

When CNS becomes volatile then two ssri drugs may be interacting more amongst eachother.

 

Eventually this will be sorted out it just takes time. For the future: Prevention is better than cure. 

 

Bye Sebas

Yeah I agree . I appreciate your help 

[LostInCanada]

7 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

What percentage are you doing your drops ?

I am super sensitive so I only do about 0.5% every couple weeks. Due to many stressors, I have not even been able to drop regularly. I still get many brutal waves. Hoping at some point I will be more stable and be able to drop more. 

 

11 minutes ago, Cheeky said:

just can't wait to have time off

Really excited for you. 😊

[Cheeky]

20 minutes ago, LostInCanada said:

am super sensitive so I only do about 0.5% every couple weeks. Due to many stressors, I have not even been able to drop regularly. I still get many brutal waves. Hoping at some point I will be more stable and be able to drop more. 

I've learnt the hard way so many times . The  tortoise  always wins the race . The best thing is the less drug in our body the better . Your on a small dose so that's an accomplishment in itself . My next goal is 5mg but not until I feel ready to taper again 

[Ariel]

Hi @Cheeky

Your upcoming trip sounds great! 

 

Hope you don't mind my chiming in. 

I've done some traveling while in WD and would like to share from my experience. 

 

I find that my body often quite remarkably cooperates when there are unusual circumstances such as international travel. I actually haven't ever really been hit by nasty waves while on a trip. This could be random luck, or it could be some sort of subconscious understanding that it was important to keep it together; no way to know! 

 

That being said, I'd emphasize the importance of listening to one's body while traveling and sightseeing, etc. It's not a binary of, either I'm ill with WD and stay home, or I go on a big trip as if nothing ever happened. The key is to accept WD and travel with one's current needs in mind, so that we're being gentle with ourselves and mindful of the body's condition. Practical self-care such as making sure to get adequate rest, staying hydrated, maintaining a mostly nutritious, whole foods diet, not subjecting oneself to extreme heat/sun/cold, pacing oneself and avoiding overexertion, etc. -- all of this will be essential to getting through the trip in a WD-friendly way. 

 

Something that can be very stressful for my WD brain is improvising and dealing with the unexpected. It requires a lot of bandwidth to make decisions on the spot, process things in real time, deal with changes of plans in the moment. I find this sort of thing inordinately demanding in my daily life, let alone while traveling. I don't know whether that resonates with you. A strategy for this is of course to try to prepare for events as well as possible and schedule my days in advance. There will always be an element of the unknown, because that's life, and especially during international travel. Whatever ways I could find to keep this to a minimum were really helpful to me. It felt a bit unlike what I was used to do, because prior to WD I was very much an improviser when it came to travel; I've done a lot of backpacking and budget adventures, and generally love the experience of getting lost in a new place without a map and just wandering and finding my way as I go. My needs have been somewhat altered (to say the least) in WD, and I've adapted to that. I avoid any sort of packed schedule or tight intinerary; I give myself plenty of time to get from place to place so that I don't have to rush or stress about catching this bus or making that connection. I make sure I've always got a place booked for the night ahead so I don't find myself without somewhere to sleep/rest. Maybe these things are obvious, I'm just mentioning them explicitly in case it's useful to sit down and think things through from a WD-supportive perspective. 

 

Befriend your FOMO and get really intimate with it! I'm going to suggest an alternative: GOMO -- Gratitude of Missing Out 

I invented that just for you, isn't it brilliant, haha, you're welcome <3

The idea is, when we're on a big once-in-a-lifetime kind of trip, we may feel some pressure to see all the sights and do all the things. That sort of whirlwind may not be compatible with pacing oneself and being mindful of WD. Of course, everyone's different, and I don't assume that my experience is the same as yours. I'd just like to invite you to give yourself permission beforehand to structure and dose your itinerary in a way that is supportive to you where you're at right now, in your current condition. The idea is to have a relaxing vacation and enjoy your time, and the best way to do that is through acceptance of what is. For example, if you're tired and choose to rest, that is an excellent choice and will serve you well moving forward. Gratitude of Missing Out is kind of like holding during a taper -- taking a break to let the body rest and recharge, which allows for us to keep going afterwards. We can give thanks for the pauses insomuch as they enable activity later. That's where the Go Mo' comes into play! Practice GOMO and you will ultimately Go More... get it? (Please excuse my self-indulgence, I'm very pleased with myself, haha)

 

The through-line here is to manage expectations, set things up for yourself in a supportive way to facilitate WD-friendly days, avoid stress and overexertion as much as possible. I trust your travel companion is on board with what you're dealing with and understands/accepts/supports that you may be a "special needs" traveler. 

 

Last but not least, I'd encourage you to think a bit about and plan ahead for when you return from your trip. In my experience, even after I've had a great time, and even when my body has "behaved" and WD hasn't been an issue, when the fun is over there can be a crash. The more I've held it together without waves, the more likely I am to crash afterwards. The effects of stress are cumulative, and that includes good, positive, happy stress, such as vacation and travel. It would be great if you could have some buffer between returning home from your trip and starting back up at work again. Giving yourself as much time as possible to acclimate to homecoming -- jet lag, daily routines, resting from the travel, etc. -- so that you don't have to hit the ground running and get slammed straight into the hard work and duties and obligations of the day-to-day. Inserting some space between arriving back home and getting back to work could be helpful. I don't know whether that's available as an option, I realize it might not be possible. Just something to consider. If it's not possible to have a few days off between returning home and getting back to full-on workload, simply being conscious of that transition would be helpful. Keeping in mind that it could be demanding and being very gentle with yourself, easing yourself into things wherever possible, accepting that maybe the first week back you'll phone it in a bit as you readjust. Forgiving ourselves, letting ourselves off the hook, and giving ourselves permission to do a mediocre job and not be perfect can do wonders! 

 

I don't know whether any of the above resonates with you. Feel free to pick and choose, ignore and discard as you see fit. 

 

I hear you expressing the need for a vacation, and I wish you a lovely, relaxing holiday! It sounds like you've been working very hard on all fronts for a long time, and this getaway is well-earned.

 

Bonus: having new experiences and adventures and exploring and getting curious about life, the world, ourselves -- these can all be beneficial to neuroplasticity and healing! You will be providing your brain with so much positive, life-affirming input and opportunities for joy and growth, I trust that you will reap the rewards in more ways than one. Remember, healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously perceive it.

 

Safe travels, and enjoy <3 

Ariel