LouiseL: escitalopram and benzodiazepine withdrawal that keeps on going - help

[Ariel]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:50 PM, LouiseL said:

I feel insanely alone at the moment. On top of / underneath all the drug induced problems I have a whole lot of things (that they tried to medicate away three years ago) that are there to be untangled. If that makes sense. 
 

I feel like I can’t really see people at the moment... I think a mix of feeling not myself, feeling anxious I will get worse physically, or just feeling so bad that it seems nothing good will come of it. But I really feel the most lonely I have ever felt.

52 minutes ago, LouiseL said:

I’m just sitting here crying and feeling despair and anxiety about how much longer I’ll be in this state. It’s no way to live.

 

@LouiseL

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I can relate to the feelings of intense loneliness, despair, anxiety. I know what it's like to feel alone in the world, and how hard it can be to feel that way while going through WD. My heart goes out to you in your struggle. 

 

55 minutes ago, LouiseL said:

I know it’s not going to help anything writing here right now but I don’t know, maybe I’ll just try. 

 

It's good that you write about what you're going through. Feel free to write and share as much as you want, anytime. 

 

It can be so difficult when all we want is to reach out for some love and reassurance and comfort and relief, and, for whatever reason, there's nobody actually physically present to give us a hug or say the right thing. I think many of us crave that connection and feel deeply the consequences of it not being available to us. In our suffering we look for substitutes, we reach for chemicals and computers. These days I often cling to my computer like a floatation device. 

 

I know that logging on and writing on SA is better for WD than taking a pill, but I still fantasize about chemical relief. When things feel unbearable the only thing stopping me from going back on drugs is that a) there's no guarantee drugs will help; b) there's a risk drugs will make things worse; c) I have already invested so many years into WD hell, I don't want to throw away that investment and have to start over; d) ultimately I would just be prolonging the very state I can't stand. Despite any possible tendencies towards procrastination, the last thing I would want to postpone is recovery! 

 

So, dear LouiseL, please use SA as much as you want! Write, read, share. It does not carry the same risks and complications as experimenting with random doses of psychiatric medication.

 

 

[Ariel]

On 4/8/2022 at 4:50 PM, getofflex said:

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm very sorry to hear about your drug situation.  It sound quite unfortunate.  Not to worry, there is a way out of this, but it will take lots of time and patience.  It sounds as though you have been dealing with a combination of adverse reaction to Zoloft, as well as withdrawal from going off psych drugs too suddenly, and the effect of this has probably been cumulative from going on and off various drugs.  You also mentioned varying the dose of mirtazapine, which we do not suggest.  This can destabilize the nervous system, and cause symptoms.  

 

@LouiseL 

getofflex has given you excellent advice and shared with you many important links. I suggest you go back and re-read your entire thread from the beginning, and keep going back and re-reading it as often as necessary.  

 

(re: your reinstatement inquiry)

On 4/8/2022 at 4:50 PM, getofflex said:

You are right to be very scared that it will make everything worse.  I've seen many people in this forum go from bad to worse when they are on a drug carousel, and then jump on yet another psych drug.  You've been on quite a lot of different meds in the past several years, fast tapers, and drug switches, and your nervous system is destabilized from this, hence being very tired.  There is a good chance your nervous system has been kindled from all this, and it is hypersensitive, and going on another psych med puts you at risk of making your situation even worse.  Read this link about kindling: 

 

Kindling and Nervous System Hypersensitivity

 

You basically have 2 options: 

 

1) stay off all psych meds and mind altering substances and learn non drug ways of dealing with symptoms, and allow time to heal your nervous system.  This truly will work.  

 

2) do a very small reinstatement of one of your previous drugs.  We will need to see your drug signature before we can suggest which drug to reinstate and how much.  Here is information about reinstatement.  Going back on a small dose of your drug, which we call reinstatement, is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest a good dose at which to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

 

 

[Ariel]

On 4/11/2022 at 9:40 AM, LouiseL said:

Luckily I am now seeing a private therapist who has a PhD in antidepressants withdrawal symptoms and as one of the few in Denmark specializes in helping people get off antidepressants.

Are you still seeing this therapist? 

 

If so, can you work with him to devise:

- a long-term game plan for recovery success, e.g. correctly handled reinstatement or maintaining abstinence 

- a long-term non-drug coping strategy to manage symptoms 

- support in implementing that strategy  

 

Based on earlier posts it sounds like you've got a WD-savvy therapist and a supportive boyfriend. Is this still the case?

These are important people/roles to have in your support system. 

Do you feel safe asking them for help when you are having moments of doubt?

Can you reach out to your therapist or your boyfriend, or maybe someone else, when you feel alone -- instead of taking a pill?

 

You are young and informed and you will recover. 

I wish for you to give yourself, your body, brain, and nervous system optimal conditions for healing. 

[LouiseL]

Hi @Ariel

Thank you so much. Now I’m crying again *sniff* but it’s more from feeling comforted. I fell asleep and have slept 3-4 ish hours plus 5.5 hours before that. Still exhausted(!!). And I dreamed I was with my extended family and constantly telling them I felt so tired and weird because of withdrawal and just wanted to sleep 🙄
 

I’ve been isolating myself for a very very long time. I see my boyfriend a couple of times a week, but I almost can’t stand visits longer than 1 hour. Not because of him, but I get so stressed and tired. A few short visits from his parents (best in-laws ever 😊❤️!). And my mum once in a while. She’s very helpful with practical stuff like giving me some food or vacuuming (even if it feels wrong that my 70 year old mum has to do these things for her 33 year old daughter). But the relation between us is, I have finally figured out, just not super healthy, honestly. 
I also have some friends and family scattered around Denmark and UK, but we only txt. And I find it very difficult to talk about withdrawal because it’s so unfamiliar to them. 
 

One thing I’ve realized through this year long crap (with help from therapy and literature and old diaries) is that I’ve probably been a child of .. I hate the words but some kind of emotional abuse by my mum and dad and brother I think. And I’m still having trouble even writing this, because I feel so guilty and spoiled (?). I think the keywords have been random disproportionate (or just completely uncalled for) scolding or ridiculing or shaming of my ... feelings or opinions 🙄. Or choices of clothes or music I liked or didn’t like or how I wanted to decorate my room as a child or if I was angry with them etc. 

 

I have finally begun to speak up to my brother though. He’s always been alternating between putting me on a pedestal and being my closest confidant and loved me SO much (I don’t doubt he does though) - but then also criticize me so so much, ridicule me, analyze me, shout at me.. and me saying “That is not okay” has not really been a useful option :-/...It’s really difficult to explain. And I often feel shame that I haven’t been able to set limits (I’ve usually just laughed off insults). But I try to remind myself that this is something that has happened since I was a child and he is 12 years older than me so.. It is very hardwired into me kind of. 
 

Anyway (arh long message..) recently he’s been... yeah. Saying that I just use withdrawal as an excuse to not do anything. His last txt states that I am such a burden for my family, my boyfriend, my in-laws, eh.. I don’t try hard enough.. I have messed up my boyfriend (my boyfriend and in-laws do not agree with this).. I should exercise more. I am wasting my life. I have a totally disillusioned view of reality <—withdrawal doesn’t exist basically. I should just try CBD oil. He keeps sending me self help videos from YouTube. He totally disregards it when I send him links and scientific material about withdrawal... I’m just not trying hard enough 🤷‍♀️ And he says he is the only one who truly helps me. Everyone else just pampers me what with their “it’s gonna be ok”, “you’ll get through this”, “can we help you with something?”... 😋... So.. I’ve put him on ice for now. He just doesn’t listen.. 

 

My mum is very supportive but she gets very easily stressed and overwhelmed (I think she has some serious anxiety from her own abusive childhood, that has never been addressed) and she goes into these emotional extreme states that’s difficult to deal with. Again it’s difficult to describe.. it’s like.. I don’t feel safe leaning on her because I don’t know when she’ll fall over or start shoving / hurting me back randomly? The few times I have tried talking to her about it, she ends up crying so much (and it breaks my heart and I feel like such a bad daughter).. and then she starts talking about how much she cared for me when I was a sick baby aaaand... my original attempt at talking to her about our relationship / stuff that simply wasn’t ok in my childhood is completely lost 😕 She is on Lexapro indefinitely but never had any therapy... I don’t know. 😔

 

Man. I feel so horrible for writing all this. Stupid guilt. 😔

 

I have my boyfriend who helps me so so much and his family who really have shown me how healthy families work (but they sadly live far away) and a few friends I txt. I still sometimes talk over the phone with my therapist. I think the lonely part is especially feeling like a weird freak who’s “having withdrawal symptoms that last years” and it’s difficult for people to relate (or maybe even believe it..).
 

I appreciate it SO much when you guys write to me that I will recover. It is such a huge huge help. Thank you. I will really try not to catastrophize(?). 

 

And then of course I feel like I’m having some increasingly great and close relationship with a lot of people from Netflix and DisneyPlus and YouTube....... even if they are very one-sided (.... ha-ha-ha 😋).. 

 

I will try to rest again. 🙂

All the best,

Louise

 

 

[Ariel]

Hi @LouiseL

How are you feeling? 

 

On 6/17/2022 at 12:05 PM, LouiseL said:

And then of course I feel like I’m having some increasingly great and close relationship with a lot of people from Netflix and DisneyPlus and YouTube....... even if they are very one-sided (.... ha-ha-ha 😋).. 

 

I can relate to this for sure.  

There's actually a cool term for this: parasocial relationship

I am very parasocially promiscuous during these WD years!

 

On 6/17/2022 at 12:05 PM, LouiseL said:

One thing I’ve realized through this year long crap (with help from therapy and literature and old diaries) is that I’ve probably been a child of .. I hate the words but some kind of emotional abuse by my mum and dad and brother I think. And I’m still having trouble even writing this, because I feel so guilty and spoiled (?). I think the keywords have been random disproportionate (or just completely uncalled for) scolding or ridiculing or shaming of my ... feelings or opinions 🙄. Or choices of clothes or music I liked or didn’t like or how I wanted to decorate my room as a child or if I was angry with them etc. 

 

I have finally begun to speak up to my brother though. He’s always been alternating between putting me on a pedestal and being my closest confidant and loved me SO much (I don’t doubt he does though) - but then also criticize me so so much, ridicule me, analyze me, shout at me.. and me saying “That is not okay” has not really been a useful option :-/...It’s really difficult to explain. And I often feel shame that I haven’t been able to set limits (I’ve usually just laughed off insults). But I try to remind myself that this is something that has happened since I was a child and he is 12 years older than me so.. It is very hardwired into me kind of. 
 

Anyway (arh long message..) recently he’s been... yeah. Saying that I just use withdrawal as an excuse to not do anything. His last txt states that I am such a burden for my family, my boyfriend, my in-laws, eh.. I don’t try hard enough.. I have messed up my boyfriend (my boyfriend and in-laws do not agree with this).. I should exercise more. I am wasting my life. I have a totally disillusioned view of reality <—withdrawal doesn’t exist basically. I should just try CBD oil. He keeps sending me self help videos from YouTube. He totally disregards it when I send him links and scientific material about withdrawal... I’m just not trying hard enough 🤷‍♀️ And he says he is the only one who truly helps me. Everyone else just pampers me what with their “it’s gonna be ok”, “you’ll get through this”, “can we help you with something?”... 😋... So.. I’ve put him on ice for now. He just doesn’t listen.. 

 

What you shared here has stayed with me. 

Recently Onmyway posted something in my thread that made me think of what you'd described:

 

On 6/25/2022 at 2:42 AM, Onmyway said:

 

It is interesting that you talk about feeling like the child that yelled 'the emperor has no clothes'. Have you ever read things on narcissistic/dysfunctional families and the various roles that children take on - one of the roles is the scapegoat (there is also the golden child and some other variations). You may have been the scapegoat child in a family if that sounds like a familiar trope. It's uncanny how accurately such a model describes many families that I know. Unfortunately the term narcissist (like the term OCD) has been overused but the dynamics are very interesting to observe and recognize. Here is some info on the scapegoat. I learned this only last year and it was quite a revelation. 8 Types of Narcissistic Family Scapegoat - (narcissistfamilyfiles.com)

 

 

Don't know whether that resonates with you, but I wanted to mention it just in case you feel like there could be value to checking out Onmyway's link. 

 

I hope you're feeling more stable than before, and that you're getting through the days without too much wear and tear. 

Remember that WD is temporary and the symptoms will pass. It gets better. 

Thinking of you and wishing you well,

A.

[LouiseL]

Hi @Ariel - Thank you so much for checking in on me. It really really means a lot 🙂

 

Also thank you for commenting on my long post about my family. I’ve actually felt a bit weird about sharing so much / maybe it was too much. But I’m glad you shared the article 🙂

 

I can relate to some of the things actually. Here I go, sharing some more 😊.. I recall being an emotional “caretaker” I think - going back and forth between my parents after they had a row. Reassuring my mum that she and dad loved each other, even though she would say “it’s not your job to comfort me” (or that time she told me, she wasn’t so sure she loved him anymore 😔💔). Conversely I would stand up for my dad in front of my mum after he’d left the room.

 

I also remember once when I was 10(?) I had seen a tv program about Feng Sui. So I started planning how we could redecorate our house to be more in line with love (?!). I am realizing now this is just.. so weird and sad that I thought it was somehow my responsibility to fix my parents’ marriage. Somehow the idea was if I could make our home more Feng Sui my parents would love each other more 😋😢

 

Anyway.. WD is still really crappy sadly 😔 Have had some very crappy nights, one of them I thought whether I was in actual danger, because I had such cramps and felt so so warm. No fever though. But bleh. I don’t know. I’m just soldiering on. 😤 Trying to ignore symptoms as much as possible / do what I can with how I feel at any given moment. 

 

I definitely have some great parasocial friendships with the entire Marvel cast (from Disney plus) 😋 I think I have heard this term before. But if it can serve as some kind of social-interaction-substitute in times of need, it’s probably okay hehe. 

 

Again thanks for checking in on me. And as always for reminding me this is temporary. 😊🙏

 

Edit: Ehm, don’t know why some of this text is small and some large. I didn’t do this on purpose

[Ariel]

@LouiseL

Sending you a hug

[LouiseL]

Hi - I’m just going to follow your advice and write in here instead of taking emergency Mirtazapine. I think I might be having a panic attack right now. 
 

These past two days have been HELL. Have had some horrible nights with sleep issues. Just lying in bed for hours in a haze of symptoms and anxiety. I’ve become terrified of going to bed. 
 

The day before yesterday I slept maybe 4-5 hours and then some during the day. Last night maybe 8 hours but interrupted. And I am in such pain from cramps and burning skin / warm warm body.. extreme anxiety.. stiffness. It’s like I’m undead during the day - not properly sleeping and not properly awake. 
 

Right now Im just so scared of how much longer I’ll have to be in this torture. I’m feeling deeply depressed over wasted years. I don’t know. Very very gloomy right now 😔😢 
 

I’m afraid if I keep on having such difficulty falling asleep that I will have to take a tiny amount of Mirtazapine... I’m afraid for my physical health. I’m afraid of just going mad from not getting enough sleep. 
 

I’m totally rambling.. I’m trying to tell myself that I DO sleep mostly 7-8 hours every night although interrupted. Parents with a baby sleep less and they survive...

 

I have spoken to my WD savy therapist. We agreed I could try and take a tiiiiny dose of Mirtazapine when needed (like maybe 0.001 mg) because it does help me fall asleep. But it also comes with side effects. And I’m afraid it will just be like.. constantly making tiny waves and slowly getting addicted to Mirtazapine. 
 

I don’t know what to do or how to get through this right now 😔

[Ariel]

@LouiseL

I'm sorry it's so rough right now. 

I know it can feel so, so hard. 

Please remember that this is temporary. It will pass. 

It gets better. 

Hang in there, Louise. This is not forever.

You will heal and WD will fade to become a distant memory.

Healing is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously feel it. 

All you have to do is get through this one moment. Just this one moment. And then the next. And the next. 

Just one moment at a time. You can do that. 

You can do this. 

 

[Ariel]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:15 PM, TentacleFinn said:

Louise, I had the same fear as you. What if I make everything worse? What if I am so kindled I fall apart? But also what if I feel better?

 

The mods are wonderful and gracious and can give you all the links to weigh it up but you will have to decide in the end. 

 

The link getofflex put about Reinstating is a very helpful thread to weigh the risks and benefits. 

 

But have faith that no matter what you choose, you will heal from this. You sound like maybe your symptoms are less hellish this week?

 

Sleep is VERY hard in withdrawal and makes everything more tiring, I definitely understand, I have been not sleeping at all most of a week. The people of this community have gathered lot of things you can try to help your sleep till you decide what you want to do. 

 Tips to help sleep Perhaps some earplugs would help?

 

I will hope for you to get some sleep tonight and feel a little better tomorrow. 

 

[Ariel]

On 5/21/2022 at 11:24 AM, Mirtazapine20mg said:

Hey Louise, fantastic post. I'm slowly tapering mirtazapine after being on it for nearly 20 years. I think you are young still, so don't worry about time or life wasted, maybe this absurd experience is going to make your life better in the long run: taking nothing for granted, taking care of your self through life in a way you wouldn't without the experience. You have been on so low doses for such a short time so I'm pretty sure you going to be fine. Personally I'm just extremely happy that I found out that mirtazapine is poison. I am a man of science and - I love science - and the only thing I regret bitterly is that didn't see - when I began taking antidepressants - that our knowledge of our CNS and our biochemical makeup is not on level where we meaningfully can make biochemical interventions. Our CNS is way to complex, our knowledge of it still way too simplistic.

 

 

[LouiseL]

Thank you so much 😢🙏 🙂
 

I’ve slept! Have been waking up maybe four times. But I’ve slept ..9(?) hours put together, I think. So.. that’s okay. 

 

Something strange I just wanted to share by the way...
 

So, especially linked to reinstatement attempts with SSRI I’ve experienced several times that I wake up / the state between fully awake and sleeping, and I am not sure where I am ( 😟 ). I keep thinking I am in my childhood home (but as me now) or my bedroom I had when I was a teenager (?!). Then I’m like “no wait I live in... my own place...” and then I slowly understand I’m in my own apartment. It is. Very. Very. Trippy. 
 

It was especially crazy a year ago when I had recently quit Escitalopram. One morning I woke up and had all these great memories of me and my dad hanging out within the past few years and that I recently lived with him. But I also knew he died 10 years ago. I realized the memories were just memories from dreams, but it was like dreams and memories sort of blurred together? Just some... serious.. cognitive confusion. I had to sit and really concentrate on remembering where I’d lived the past ten years (I’ve moved around a lot).
 

I never experienced anything like this before WD. I’m not really scared of it anymore because I can tell this confusion is linked to SSRI WD for me somehow. But argh! It is so weird. 
 

Generally I dream a lot about my dad and childhood home when SSRI WD is at its worst. But they are mostly very pleasant dreams. Maybe the drugs in WD somehow activate particularly the old memories part of my brain, I don’t know 🤷‍♀️ 
 

Again, thank you so so much for your post. ❤️

[LouiseL]

PS: Just curious - are there any like international campaigns / organizations that are trying to raise awareness of the issues with psychopharmacology drugs? Potentially force the medical industry to make way smaller doses for tapering etc. 

 

Sorry if you already posted something, I’m not totally clear minded at the moment.

[ChessieCat]

Events, actions, controversies

 

In the media

 

  

On 5/15/2011 at 5:22 AM, Altostrata said:

This site is also a research project. The personal stories on this site are documentation of an iatrogenic condition -- suffering caused by medical treatment -- that is almost always ignored, misdiagnosed, or denied by the medical establishment. Given the widespread prescription of antidepressants to tens of millions of people worldwide, withdrawal syndrome probably affects hundreds of thousands if not millions -- including newborns and children.

Antidepressant withdrawal syndrome can last weeks, months, or years. It can be distressing, debilitating, or even disabling. It may be adding to an increase in what is termed disabling mental illness.

With our documentation of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome, we hope to educate the medical establishment about this problem. Case studies are essential; they are evidence understood by doctors, the psychiatric industry, and government regulatory agencies. The have already informed numerous articles in major publications and scientific papers.

Our hope is, eventually, antidepressants and other psychiatric drugs will be prescribed rarely, and only in cases of extremely severe mental illness after less invasive treatments have been tried.

Please join Surviving Antidepressants in its mission to support, document, and educate about psychiatric drug withdrawal syndrome.

 

[LouiseL]

Hi - just a little update. I thought I’d post something at a time where I am not totally losing it, to give anyone who might read this a sense that... things aren’t hell all the time during withdrawal.. 

 

So short update: My body and brain is still a complete mess, but somehow I’m making it through the days and there are moments where I am actually having an ok time (knock knock knock on wood) 🙂

 

The past days I’ve managed to fall asleep and get maybe 8-9 hours each night. 
 

I’ve realized that what I eat have a massive impact on my sleep. These are definitely no go currently: 

Caffeine, including green / white / black tea, dark chocolate. Strong spices, including pepper and chili (!). Maybe sugar, at least too much. Ginger, garlic, cinnamon... Oh and licorice (but maybe that’s just a Dane problem because apparently we eat lots of licorice and every other nationality finds it disgusting?  )
 

So, yeah.. 

 

All the best ❤️

[Ariel]

Hi @LouiseL

I appreciate this update from you <3

 

8 hours ago, LouiseL said:

The past days I’ve managed to fall asleep and get maybe 8-9 hours each night. 

 

I'm very happy for you, this is awesome. Enjoy! 

 

8 hours ago, LouiseL said:

I’ve realized that what I eat have a massive impact on my sleep. These are definitely no go currently: 

Caffeine, including green / white / black tea, dark chocolate. Strong spices, including pepper and chili (!). Maybe sugar, at least too much. Ginger, garlic, cinnamon... Oh and licorice

 

Good on you for noticing and adjusting accordingly. Your findings are consistent with what many members discover. 

 

It sounds like you are slowly but surely making your way through, listening to your body, expanding your awareness, and taking care of yourself. 

I don't know to what extent you use the site (searching for info; reading other members' threads and interacting; reading success stories). There are a lot of great resources available to support you in your healing process if you are interested.

 

Congratulations on getting through the days, go gently <3

 

 

[LouiseL]

Hi... (said like Ross from Friends, I guess).

 

... No, but seriously. I’m in hell again.. can’t even explain my symptoms. I’m just constantly in some kind of weird horrible physical / emotional PAIN. I think maybe this is the “wall” I seem to hit. 

 

Sigh. The only way out is through. 😔 Yeah. Just a sad update from here. 

[Mirtazapine20mg]

Hey L, I am right there with you. Thinking of you. 

[LouiseL]

Thank you 🙂 That actually means so much to me. Let’s hang in there.

[ChessieCat]

29 minutes ago, LouiseL said:

I think maybe this is the “wall” I seem to hit. 

 

How often does this happen?  If you are of menstruating age, then it might be related to your cycle.

[LouiseL]

24 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

How often does this happen?  If you are of menstruating age, then it might be related to your cycle.

Oh, interesting.. But it’s not consistent as such. It’s more like..

 

I quit Escitalopram over a fricking year ago (!). Then after three months I hit a point where I thought I just couldn’t take this, and then tried reinstalling (but that made it worse / I regretted and didn’t want to anyway?). 

 

But then those few days of reinstalling sort of.. carried me through another two months (I don’t know if it makes sense, this is just my personal experience). Then in December I hit another “can’t take this!!” and stupidly took half a benzodiazepine twice. Which of course made everything worse yet somehow “carried” me through another three months. 
 

Then I tried a Melatonin pill. Same deal, some stuff worse but carrying me through another month. Then wall, tried tiiiiiiiny dose Mirtazapine which helped me sleep better iiish for one months ish, then one and a half month ago I tried the tiniest drop of Escitalopram (one desperate morning).

 

... To answer your question more concisely (😋) : Every two months on average. But I will do everything in my fricking power to not try anymore because it just kindles / extends my recovery I’ve finally realized.. 

 

Sorry about the long reply. 🙄

[LouiseL]

 

Hi.. Been a little better today (knock on wood). 

 

I just wanted to share some thoughts again - hope my posts aren’t too much 🙂

 

I’ve been thinking a lot about how I will feel when (if..no, when..) I’m completely out of WD. I’m so afraid of going back to how crazy my body was behaving from stress / anxiety before I was put on antidep and Benzo in 2019. (It also behaves crazy on them though).

 

I’m trying to remind myself that the “chemical imbalance” theory is NOT true. But my head is still whispering “dude, maybe you just need antidepressants because you’re inherently broken in your brain”. Like I’ll have some weird autonomous anxiety in my body that is completely out of my power to soothe or treat without medication. (If I didn’t know any better, I’d think it’s a fail safe the medical industry has built into the meds to make me think that.... 😋🙄 #conspiracytheory). 

 

Then I have also been thinking about whether my extreme anxiety / stress in 2019... could... maybe... partly have been influenced by medication.

 

In the beginning of 2018 I had pneumonia after moving into an apartment that, we later found out, had mold. I continuously had a lot of respiratory / lung issues throughout 2018. During this year I was on antibiotics 8 times and a prednisone cure about 4 times. 

 

I don’t know if I sound totally paranoid or in denial, but after some (admittedly quick) googling, I’ve found that both repeated treatment with antibiotics and prednisone can heighten the risk / have side effects in the form of depression or anxiety. Am really starting to wonder if I might’ve been affected by that 🤷‍♀️ I had anxiety symptoms in 2018/19 that I never had before. 

 

(PS: My therapist would probably ask if all this rumination is actually helpful 😋 )

 

I think I’ve gained a completely new understanding of “how to mental health” now that I did not have in 2018.. so maybe I won’t just go back to prior antidep state... but it’s still a scary thought that is difficult to shake. 

 

On 7/4/2022 at 6:43 PM, Ariel said:

I don't know to what extent you use the site (searching for info; reading other members' threads and interacting; reading success stories). There are a lot of great resources available to support you in your healing process if you are interested.

 

I’m actually deliberately not reading too many other stories right now.. Maybe it’s a bit cowardly, or self-centered, but my despair-anxiety gets triggered so easily right now and I’m just so afraid I’ll read someone else’s horror story and spiral into panic. 😔

 

When (!) I feel less fragile I really want to read more people’s stories and also hopefully be able to help other people going through WD. I hope it makes sense.. 

 

...As always thanks for listening (/reading). 😊👍 

[ChessieCat]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:52 PM, LouiseL said:

But I will do everything in my fricking power to not try anymore because it just kindles / extends my recovery I’ve finally realized.. 

 

I'm glad to read this.  When we feel awful we can make bad decisions because we want to feel better.

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

[Healingcontinues]

Hi @LouiseL

 

I just wanted to stop by to say hi and that I am thinking of you 😊

 

How are you doing with everything? 
 

Warm wishes 

[LouiseL]

Hi @Healingcontinues 

Aaw thank you 😊😢🙂

 

I am soldiering on, is probably the best way to put it.
 

I actually tried (again, sigh) an extremely tiny dose of Mirtazapine (0.02 Mg. or maybe even less) after some horrible days of insomnia that didn’t seem to stop and was making me lose my mind 😔. I talked to my WD savy therapist about trying to see if that might work as a solution once in a while to help me sleep. 
 

It was (surprise) not helpful. It pushed down some symptoms but then just added some other ones instead. 
 

I’m perpetually tired / sleepy / like I haven’t slept. Even if I have slept 8-9 hours. So yeah. Just soldiering on 😑

 

How are you / where are you in your WD process? Nice to meet you 😊👍 And thank you for asking about me. 🥺🙂

 

All the best

Louise 

 

[Nypeaches89]

On 5/21/2022 at 1:04 PM, LouiseL said:

Thank you 😊🙏 I’m trying to tell myself the same thing (about this absurd experience maybe being helpful in the long run).
 

We are being adviced and treated by doctors and psychiatrists who SHOULD know about the possible severe side effects and withdrawal symptoms (I can’t figure out why they don’t?! This is SUCH a huge problem for SO many people?!). And there are loads of (as far as I’m concerned) scientific studies of treatment with antidepressants that support it as efficient treatment. So going into this how should we as patients know any better. My point is that blaming ourselves for taking the meds in the first place probably isn’t fair to ourselves 🙂 
 

There probably just isn’t enough research on antidep. withdrawal? Who do we shout at to make doctors and psychiatrists and mental health professionals in general understand the potential severity of antidepressant side effects / withdrawal? 😕 
 

I have even tried asking a psychiatrist who “treated” me if I could email him some Lancet publications on SSRI withdrawal because he kept insisting that withdrawal only lasts 2 weeks and is mild. No thanks and no debate. What the hell. 😠 He was probably close to retirement so maybe this would have shattered his worldview.... 🙄 Sorry I am just so mad about this whole thing. I manage most of the time to practice radical acceptance but right now I think I just needed to vent. 🤯😊🤦‍♀️

Hi! 👐🏻 My psychiatrist, who isn’t THAT old, was also in full on denial of withdrawal. He kept repeating like a broken record that ~withdrawal is 3 weeks max and mild and that it happens right after quitting, not later~. It drove me absolutely insane to not be listened to. To be taken for an insane anti-meds person. I was compared to anti vax people?! As if my experience was a political statement rather than a terrible, life threatening, traumatic experience?! 
9 months later I still am wondering HOW and WHY we aren’t heard by them. How is it possible for them to be so blind and so deaf to what we’re saying and experiencing. And how is it so f******g hard to believe that YES drugs that we took every day for years are traumatic for our brain to quit!!! I’m so enraged. 
Ive been sold SSRI as the healthy responsible answer to anxiety. They said what else will you do? Smoke a pack a day? Drink? Smoke weed?
the irony obviously is : quitting SSRI and benzos is more difficult than quitting ANY drug .  Not saying I defend drug use obviously. But we were so misguided. 
Anyway I hope you feel better?? How are you ? 

[Nypeaches89]

6 hours ago, LouiseL said:

Hi @Healingcontinues 

Aaw thank you 😊😢🙂

 

I am soldiering on, is probably the best way to put it.
 

I actually tried (again, sigh) an extremely tiny dose of Mirtazapine (0.02 Mg. or maybe even less) after some horrible days of insomnia that didn’t seem to stop and was making me lose my mind 😔. I talked to my WD savy therapist about trying to see if that might work as a solution once in a while to help me sleep. 
 

It was (surprise) not helpful. It pushed down some symptoms but then just added some other ones instead. 
 

I’m perpetually tired / sleepy / like I haven’t slept. Even if I have slept 8-9 hours. So yeah. Just soldiering on 😑

 

How are you / where are you in your WD process? Nice to meet you 😊👍 And thank you for asking about me. 🥺🙂

 

All the best

Louise 

 

Hi again’ 

 

I relate to the insomnia as well! 
I think reinstating might not be good but im

 no doctor. I’ve thought about it many times, my parents don’t understand why I don’t do it, I’ve even booked an appointment in September but no. I’m going to cancel it and keep going without reinstating. 
All I can say is: exercising helped. Anti histamines helped. These are soft solutions in my opinion ( I know some won’t agree!). A very low dose of melatonin has helped in the past, I stopped taking it cos I found it too strong and had very weird effect of being extremely tired but my nerveous system resisted hard this fatigue and in result I felt a fear / dread of sleep (?!!). 
 

Also like you, I do sleep but oh my god what  a poor sleep quality. I wake up all the time. I have to pee 46290 times a night lol. I wake up exhausted , nerveous,  my mind is foggy. 
So I don’t do much all day and then it’s a vicious circle. You need to be active during to sleep at night. 
 

anyway. Maybe try walking ? Or swimming? 
 

I know you feel tired but you do seem to sleep! Poor sleep is better than zero sleep trust me!! 
Also by the way I’m the same age than you, ha! Someone talked about hormones, i personally track my cycle and noticed I am GREATLY affected by it. Just sayin

 

 

Courage and let me know how you’re going. 
 

💛🎢🫠

 

[LouiseL]

4 hours ago, Nypeaches89 said:

Hi! 👐🏻 My psychiatrist, who isn’t THAT old, was also in full on denial of withdrawal. He kept repeating like a broken record that ~withdrawal is 3 weeks max and mild and that it happens right after quitting, not later~. It drove me absolutely insane to not be listened to. To be taken for an insane anti-meds person. I was compared to anti vax people?! As if my experience was a political statement rather than a terrible, life threatening, traumatic experience?! 
9 months later I still am wondering HOW and WHY we aren’t heard by them. How is it possible for them to be so blind and so deaf to what we’re saying and experiencing. And how is it so f******g hard to believe that YES drugs that we took every day for years are traumatic for our brain to quit!!! I’m so enraged. 
Ive been sold SSRI as the healthy responsible answer to anxiety. They said what else will you do? Smoke a pack a day? Drink? Smoke weed?
the irony obviously is : quitting SSRI and benzos is more difficult than quitting ANY drug .  Not saying I defend drug use obviously. But we were so misguided. 
Anyway I hope you feel better?? How are you ? 

Hi @Nypeaches89 - I share your anger and outrage so so so so much. 😔🤬. I think currently I’m trying to put it on a shelf (it is not easy) and bring it back out when I feel better. I really feel like I have to do something / tell my (so many people’s) story. Just don’t know exactly how 🤷‍♀️ A strongly worded letter times 100 or something. 

Did they actually compare you to anti waxers? Sigh. With me my “condition” had been taken up in a board meeting (is that what it’s called?) of various psychiatrists and STILL they came to the conclusion that I should be diagnosed for delusions. Like. Argh. 😔 I am so glad I finally found this forum and a savy WD therapist who recognized my symptoms. 
 

… So, what should we do then? Perhaps we could form a mob and go burn down their houses or maybe infiltrate their working places and spike their morning coffees with antidepressants and benzodiazepines and then see them slowly go insane before we reveal to them that “SEE you bastards, we were right all along! Mwuhahahaha!!” …. (PS: This is obviously a joke, I don’t recommend doing this for real. 🙄😋)
 

I will answer your other message tomorrow / soon 😊👍

[eileen1111]

On 7/12/2022 at 7:20 PM, LouiseL said:

I think I’ve gained a completely new understanding of “how to mental health” now that I did not have in 2018.. so maybe I won’t just go back to prior antidep state... but it’s still a scary thought that is difficult to shake. 

 

Hi Louise,

All your posts are really reflective and interesting and I find myself agreeing with so many aspects of your experience and seeing myself in what you're saying. I also get scared about how I'm supposed to live my life after withdrawal as someone who has a tendency for severe stress and anxiety reactions, knowing what I know now about the fact that there are no meds that will ultimately 'save' me and that they aren't magic pills to cure mental health struggles. But the reason I got to such an extreme state before being put on drugs was because I wasn't looking after my needs properly and was abusing alcohol/recreational drugs while a student and just had a burnout/breakdown. I'm hopeful that the horrible experience of withdrawal will ultimately be the learning curve I needed to change how I live, and that I will always prioritise health and balance and listening to my body going forwards ! And there is always help from non-drug support systems, therapy, massage, exercise, knowing when to rest etc... anyway sorry for the ramble just getting my thoughts down while I have them. 

 

Hope you're having a better day

[LouiseL]

Hi @eileen1111! Aaw thank you. I’m glad my rambling is a little helpful maybe 😋

 

Did antidepressants help you? For me they never actually helped / I did feel moments of extreme calm and/or “happiness”, but I felt so drugged and foggy all the time. I can imagine if you’re someone where they actually did have a good effect (I guess this must be true for some people…?) it can be really frightening to stop as well. 
 

@Mirtazapine20mg wrote to me in an earlier post that maybe this will be a blessing in disguise (I may be paraphrasing) and that’s something I’m really trying to hold onto 😊 When I can.
 

For me, a really big “take away” from this has been that relationships in my family have actually been very unhealthy. 😕 Which means I’ve had a very difficult time (still do) setting boundaries and validating my own emotions and needs (<— just writing that makes me feel uncomfortable. 🤦‍♀️) 

 

To anyone who might feel similarly I can recommend a book called “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents” … it sounds maybe cliché but for me, taking a good look at how my parents spoke to me and treated me, has helped me a lot with depression,  anxiety and self worth. Of course we are all different and maybe your mental health struggle stem from something else entirely 😊

Now that I am at it, I just also want to share the name of a YouTube channel that is helping me. It’s called CinemaTherapy hehe. I may have mentioned it here before. It’s a licensed therapist and a filmmaker who react to and talk about mental health issues in films (typically very well known ones like Pixar, Marvel, Disney, DC etc.) Of course it doesn’t replace real therapy but I really like them and have already learned a lot from them. And they are just so cosy 😊
 

How are you today? For me this is just another day in withdrawal land. Not torture but not great. 
 

All the best 😊💪

[LouiseL]

Hi again @Nypeaches89!
 

Hmm.. Have your parents been on antidepressants or gone through withdrawal? Because if not, I don’t think they really can have an opinion on the matter … in my opinion 🙄… And either way it is of course entirely up to you to reinstate or not 😊👍

 

I have tried antihistamines and melatonin as well. They sadly just kindle my symptoms. And so does exercise where I am at right now. So it’s like… trying to be active but not being too active. It’s so true, it is a vicious cycle. We need to be active to sleep, but if we are completely knackered then we can’t be active. 
 

I can usually exercise a little better in the evening. When I go for walks it’s often around 10-11 at night or later (if I can’t sleep). So I’m the neighborhood weirdo who ventures out for a walk in the dark. 😋

 

Maybe I’ll try to see if there’s a pattern around my womany cycle but I haven’t noticed it so far. 
 

Hope you are having an okay day 🙂!

[eileen1111]

On 8/21/2022 at 2:10 PM, LouiseL said:

Did antidepressants help you? For me they never actually helped / I did feel moments of extreme calm and/or “happiness”, but I felt so drugged and foggy all the time.

 

hey! I don't think they really helped and in the long run have made things worse. I didn't have terrible side effects on them and was highly functional, but did have bad sexual dysfunction. They didn't really reduce my anxiety levels, instead they actually acted as a kind of 'gateway prescription drug' which made me think that self medicating with benzos and weed and alcohol was all okay because I was taking the 'magic happy pill' SSRI. so I became careless with my health, and was acting pretty impulsively and taking big risks the whole time I was on them. I don't know how much was strictly the sertraline and how much was other factors. 

But they definitely changed my brain chemistry severely !!!

[UserMan1775]

On 4/11/2022 at 3:40 AM, LouiseL said:

My boyfriend actually asked the pharmacist who sold us the Mirtazapine about cutting smaller doses - she said that you can’t cut the pill in tiny pieces because the medication isn’t evenly distributed in the pill? So one quarter of it might not have the same amount as another quarter? What are your experiences with this ? 

That is non-sense, you see in my signature i got off klonopin specifically by cutting the pills and using a gram scale to weigh, its evenly distributed, or pretty darn close.

[LouiseL]

Hi @eileen1111 sorry to not reply sooner. I recognize this as well. For me I have so many times become so desperate because my withdrawal symptoms were (“were”!) so torturous that I just grasped for anything to make it less horrible. I haven’t felt like that for maybe two months now though. So yay  Knock. On. Wood. 
 

How are you now? 
 

Hi @UserMan1775 - Another weird lie / misconception apparently. I still don’t understand why this whole industry and the psychiatry world wide is so full of misinformation. What the actual hell is going on 😑 
 

__
 

Anyway - I thought I’d just give a general update on my recovery if anyone is interested 😊

 

I still have many symptoms everyday but it’s been a while since I had those horrifying constantly feeling tortured days. Last couple of days I’ve slept 9-11 hours each night which is amaaazing 😊 Still extremely tired and drowsy during the day but I get through the days. So …… maaaaaybe there is light at the end of this tunnel. 
 

Something weird that I wanted to ask about though (just to anyone who might read this).
 

Can increase in social anxiety be a withdrawal symptom? I’ve suddenly been feeling much more preoccupied recently with thoughts about whether I seemed weird or did / said / wrote inappropriate or embarrassing things to people. 😋🤷‍♀️

 

I have been VERY isolated while I’ve been recovering from all this crap medication for over a year, so of course that probably doesn’t help. 

It could also be that on these medications I’ve tended to feel like my inhibitions have been lowered, almost like when you’re drunk, so it might just be a sign that my normal sense of eh self awareness is returning and my brain is trying to figure out how to be social again (?!?). 😋

 

I’m curious if anyone else have noticed strange increases in social anxiety during withdrawal? 
 

All the best so everyone 😊

Louise

[Mirtazapine20mg]

That is worlds best profile photo. Sort of a "do not f*ck with me"-fighting spirit. I like that ;-). Now I will make own 🙂

 

[LouiseL]

20 minutes ago, Mirtazapine20mg said:

That is worlds best profile photo. Sort of a "do not f*ck with me"-fighting spirit. I like that ;-). Now I will make own 🙂

 

Haha thank you 😊 But I actually just changed it to Anger from Pixar’s Inside Out instead… now I’m conflicted. 😋