Nicolas45140: switching Paxil to Lexapro

[Altostrata]

It is unlikely you will have permanent brain damage. What do you want to do about something that you cannot possibly predict?

[Nicolas45140]

Withdrawal after arrived to 0mg

 

Hello, 

i wanted to create a new topic on what is happening and trying to understand WD after arrived to 0mg antidépressant.

 

most of the success stories i have been reading had strong withdrawal couple of weeks or months after arrived to stop completely their antidépressant… 

 

i could say from symptoms that would be GAD (general anxiety disorder) 

 

It happens to me when i stopped Paxil probably too fast but except physical dizziness, no major symptoms was There but after a month or two, GAD arrived and because i didn’t know my GP put me back on Paxil. 

it would be Nice to exchange on that matter cause i am really scared that would happen again. 
today, i can reduce and still working and doing my sports. Hope it will continue that way. 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

Here is a topic about post 0mg experiences:

 

Experiences after tapering to zero

 

I have successfully been off my antidepressant for 9 months after taking an antidepressant for 25+ years. 

 

If you went on an antidepressant for a particular reason then you will need to learn non drug techniques to cope with that issue/those issues once you are off the drug.  This is something that you could start learning now.

 

Non-drug techniques

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose (not the starting dose) and holding for at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

From the information in your drug signature it looks like you are tapering too quickly.  And because Lexapro is a very strong drug, those reductions are magnified by the extra potency of the drug:

  

On 5/27/2011 at 12:16 PM, Altostrata said:

If you are taking 5mg of Lexapro, it's not tiny, it's equivalent to 10-20mg Paxil or Celexa.

Consequently, when you taper off escitalopram, you should be careful to decrease by small amounts, as each drop is magnified by escitalopram's extra potency.

 

2021-present Lexapro 5mg

10% decrease

10-2022 Lexapro 4,5mg

11.1111% decrease

06-25-2022 Lexapro 4mg

12.5% decrease

07-23-2022 Lexapro 3.5mg

 

And if you continue to reduce by 0.5mg increments the next reduction from 3.5mg to 3.0mg would be

14.2857% decrease

 

I suggest that instead of reducing at the end of August that you hold for at least another 8 weeks, and not make another reduction until the end of October IF you are stable.  And the next reduction would be to 3.15mg (calculation:  3.5mg x 0.9).

 

Post #1 of this topic explains how to get non standard doses of your drug:

 

Tips for tapering off escitalopram (Lexapro)

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You might be experiencing withdrawal symptoms which you do not realise are caused by tapering too quickly:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[Nicolas45140]

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

2021-present Lexapro 5mg

10% decrease

10-2022 Lexapro 4,5mg

11.1111% decrease

06-25-2022 Lexapro 4mg

12.5% decrease

07-23-2022 Lexapro 3.5mg

 

And if you continue to reduce by 0.5mg increments the next reduction from 3.5mg to 3.0mg would be

14.2857% decrease

 

I suggest that instead of reducing at the end of August that you hold for at least another 8 weeks, and not make another reduction until the end of October IF you are stable.  And the next reduction would be to 3.15mg (calculation:  3.5mg x 0.9).

Hello chessie cat, thank you so much for your time.

You right about that. I will respect deadly the 10% reduction from now on. 

I have Mark Horowitz on my side to help me taper off this drug and yes, the next reduction will be 3,2 cause 3,15 is a bit difficult to dose with titration. 

 

[Nicolas45140]

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You might be experiencing withdrawal symptoms which you do not realise are caused by tapering too quickly:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

From mark horowitz side withdrawal symptoms are from paxil i switched 1 year ago and more lightly from my reductions from Escilalopram. 

[Nicolas45140]

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

If you went on an antidepressant for a particular reason then you will need to learn non drug techniques to cope with that issue/those issues once you are off the drug.  This is something that you could start learning now.

This is interesting. I have been on antidepressant 22 years ago for hypocondrie/OCD or health anxiety. Unfortunately, panic attack, insomnia, gain weight and being like in a chemical straitjacket, in a cloud, no feelings, no empathy, no sexdrive.... well, just lost of stuff that I didn't have before taking the drug. 

 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

the next reduction will be 3,2 cause 3,15 is a bit difficult to dose with titration. 

 

This is the better way to do it, to round up, not down so that you do not go over the 10% reduction.

 

Remember that the reduction after that will need to be calculated on the 3.2mg (the dose you took) not the 3.15mg.

[Nicolas45140]

Hello everyone, 

I am still on 3,2mg of lexapro and feeling a bit lost on my journey to taper off my drug. 
accepting my symptoms make things easier and i must filter what i read on SA website cause it brings me anxiety if i read stuff too severe for me or not corresponding to me. 
To be honnest, reducing dosage et Be able to function everyday at work, going bicycle for 3 hours, Well doing everydays stuff is great compare to whats others symptoms on SA having everyday. 
Well stomach/nausea and light anxiety is very annoying and i dont know if it is the Paxil i took before lexapro for years giving me trouble or the lexapro withdrawal…. 
if we could exchange that would be nice. 

[Faure]

Hi Nicolas, great to hear that you are working and exercising, as you say that is very good compared to many on here. Be careful not to exercise too hard as that can stress your nervous system and cause you to become unstable. 
 

Why are you feeling lost on your tapering journey?

[Altostrata]

@Nicolas45140 are you still feeling withdrawal symptoms? You might take a vacation from tapering for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

[Nicolas45140]

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Nicolas45140 are you still feeling withdrawal symptoms? You might take a vacation from tapering for a while, let your nervous system settle down.

Hello to you, 

Well i have withdrawal symptoms since the beginning more or less stronger (wave and Windows i guess). I dont know if i have paws from the Paxil i took for so long time but off my body for a year Now or the tapering of lexapro i started a year ago when i switched from paxil. im doing a low tapering and i should have reduced on the 23rd this month but i will wait some more Time to go down at 3mg. 
what do you think about thé situation ? 
take care 

Nicolas 

[Nicolas45140]

23 hours ago, Faure said:

Hi Nicolas, great to hear that you are working and exercising, as you say that is very good compared to many on here. Be careful not to exercise too hard as that can stress your nervous system and cause you to become unstable. 
 

Why are you feeling lost on your tapering journey?

Hello faure, 

i do bicycle nothing too hard but i didnt know sport could stress the nervous system. 
i get lost cause I dont know why i keep having symptoms even when reducing very slowly. If I suffer from paws of the Paxil i stopped to switch for lexapro a year ago or if its my tapering of lexapro that cause me trouble. 
I didn’t see your story, see if we have Common past background with drugs.

talk soon 

sorry for my english as i am french native 

nicolas 

[Faure]

With tapering the idea isn’t to have no withdrawal symptoms, but to keep them manageable. So expecting to have none is not realistic, especially as you may still be experiencing WD from your earlier drug. You will still have some WD, even when tapering slowly, and when you reach a steady state of not feeling bad, not feeling great, but feeling what people here call ‘withdrawal normal’ - so a steady state of being - that’s when you know you are ready to drop again. Maybe a bit like “comme si comme ca….”

I started tapering from a stable state and experience: difficulty getting to sleep, anxiety / fear for no reason, short temper (not sure how much that is down to WD and how much is just normal for me!! 😂😂) and most commonly pains in my legs. As my taper has progressed these are minimal now, but some are still present.

 

SA recommends tapering no more than 10% of your current dose, so that would be 3.15, not 3.  Bigger drops cause more WD symptoms so should be avoided. If you need information about how to get smaller doses please say and we can point you in the right direction. 

[Nicolas45140]

19 minutes ago, Faure said:

With tapering the idea isn’t to have no withdrawal symptoms, but to keep them manageable. So expecting to have none is not realistic, especially as you may still be experiencing WD from your earlier drug. You will still have some WD, even when tapering slowly, and when you reach a steady state of not feeling bad, not feeling great, but feeling what people here call ‘withdrawal normal’ - so a steady state of being - that’s when you know you are ready to drop again. Maybe a bit like “comme si comme ca….”

I started tapering from a stable state and experience: difficulty getting to sleep, anxiety / fear for no reason, short temper (not sure how much that is down to WD and how much is just normal for me!! 😂😂) and most commonly pains in my legs. As my taper has progressed these are minimal now, but some are still present.

 

SA recommends tapering no more than 10% of your current dose, so that would be 3.15, not 3.  Bigger drops cause more WD symptoms so should be avoided. If you need information about how to get smaller doses please say and we can point you in the right direction. 

I am on 3.2mg so to make it easier i was thinking 3mg would be great as the liquid version is a drop = 1mg 

we can say that i am « comme ci comme » with some days more difficult than others. 
bad sleep with very early morning kind of fear or light anxiety or worrying, light anxiety during the day, nausea and irritability or like feeling angry inside me. the good thing is Being able to manage work and sport ! 

hope it will continue. 
thank you so much for being here !! 
nicolas

[Altostrata]

@Nicolas45140 if you are feeling significant withdrawal symptoms, such as poor sleep, if I were you, I'd stop tapering and let your nervous system settle down for a good while. 

[Faure]

1 hour ago, Nicolas45140 said:

thank you so much for being here !! 

You are welcome, I know it helps not to feel alone. This forum is super for that. Listen to Alto’s advice and let us know how you are doing ☺️

[Faure]

17 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

am on 3.2mg so to make it easier i was thinking 3mg would be great as the liquid version is a drop = 1mg 

I’m not an expert on liquids, but as you get lower you will need to be able to measure smaller and smaller doses. It’s probably worth investigating buying different size syringes and also reading about liquids so that you can do the small amounts. I’m sorry this will be hard for you as it’s all in English. 

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, Faure said:

I’m not an expert on liquids, but as you get lower you will need to be able to measure smaller and smaller doses. It’s probably worth investigating buying different size syringes and also reading about liquids so that you can do the small amounts. I’m sorry this will be hard for you as it’s all in English. 

Hello Faure, I do have all the "walter white" (breaking bad) materials to make the small amounts. arriving to 3mg for a month or two will give me some peace not having to prepare my potion.

 

[Faure]

2 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

Hello Faure, I do have all the "walter white" (breaking bad) materials to make the small amounts. arriving to 3mg for a month or two will give me some peace not having to prepare my potion.

😂😂 brilliant! I loved Breaking Bad. I nearly finished Better Call Saul then stopped my subscription, I’ll have to get a month at some point to finish that!  Have you seen it as well?

[Nicolas45140]

2 minutes ago, Faure said:

😂😂 brilliant! I loved Breaking Bad. I nearly finished Better Call Saul then stopped my subscription, I’ll have to get a month at some point to finish that!  Have you seen it as well?

Well, i remember Dr Mark Horowitz mentionned that we all are in some points "walter white" trying to make our small doses in our kitchen..... Didn't watch better call saul but loved breaking bad. I read the topics you mentionned and i will make my potion for a week... not more cause i was doing approximately two weeks stored in fridge in smal dark bottle. 

[Nicolas45140]

Hello all !! 
a little update of my tapering journey. 
Once again, i do apologies for my poor english as it is not my primary language. 
I was on 3.2mg of lexapro and taper to 3mg about a week ago. 

well, each reduction every month is terrible until it settle after a week or two. 

I know Now that every Time il will reduce i will be ok the first two days, then insomnia, morning cortisol pike, diarrhea, nausea, ANXIETY/FEAR, headache, and some more will hit me for some days, then it stabilize until to accept to do the next reduction.

the thing is that 5 or 10% réduction does the same withdrawal symptoms at same level. So 5% isn’t more convenient for me. (What about you ??, same ?? ) 

to do a workbook and note the overall score of your day, everyday with symptoms… we can clearly see that the schéma is repeting everytime. 
so for Now, work is still ok, can keep on going and bicycle 4 days a week is ok. 

Take care to all of you during the fight of your Life ! 
nicolas 

[Altostrata]

5 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

the thing is that 5 or 10% réduction does the same withdrawal symptoms at same level.

 

How did you find this out?

 

If you know your symptom pattern and can cope with it, you might experiment with slightly larger reductions. But I'm going to guess your memory is not quite accurate, and you'll find withdrawal is worse with greater reductions.

[Nicolas45140]

4 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

How did you find this out?

 

If you know your symptom pattern and can cope with it, you might experiment with slightly larger reductions. But I'm going to guess your memory is not quite accurate, and you'll find withdrawal is worse with greater reductions.

Hello 

of course bigger reductions will make stronger withdrawal symptoms. I was just saying between 5 and 10%, withdrawal seems similar. i wont do a 20 or 30%. 
and i do agree that when you know your symptoms pattern it is easier to support withdrawal. 

[Altostrata]

Suggest you only nudge your reduction up to 6% and see what happens.

[Nicolas45140]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Suggest you only nudge your reduction up to 6% and see what happens.

This is what i did from 3,2mg to 3mg and hopefully next month 2.8. 
 

[Nicolas45140]

On 10/21/2022 at 6:33 AM, Altostrata said:

Suggest you only nudge your reduction up to 6% and see what happens.

Hello altostrata. Could we change title of my topic for : withdrawal and tapering lexapro/seroplex/cipralex 

 

[Altostrata]

It's okay, we're not fussy about titles. everybody's situation changes as time goes on.

[Nicolas45140]

Hello to all. 

A little update. Stil on 3,2mg lexapro.

I will add my simple work book to score my overall days during my journey off the drug. We can see at every reductions there is a return to some WD symptoms and it pass after some days. 

Dreams seems to coming back as I start to remember some of them and after so many years without remembering....thats very strange. 

I also start to have skin problem. I don't know why but when I scratch myself per exemple I skin gets hot and red (like an allergie), It happened when I started antidepressant and now it comes back. 

I also don't really understand, my french psy, the one who gives me my prescriptions told me that for these problems, i should try benzo for one or two days and if that passes these symptoms, that would be anxiety problems and if it will not pass then it will be WD symptoms.... what do you think of all that. 

Please help me to understand what is going on to me. 

Thanks to all. 

Nicolas 

 

workbook for Nicolas.xlsx

[Faure]

Quote

13 hours ago, Nicolas45140 said:

also start to have skin problem. I don't know why but when I scratch myself per exemple I skin gets hot and red (like an allergie), It happened when I started antidepressant and now it comes back. 

I also don't really understand, my french psy, the one who gives me my prescriptions told me that for these problems, i should try benzo for one or two days and if that passes these symptoms, that would be anxiety problems and if it will not pass then it will be WD symptoms.... what do you think of all that. 

Please help me to understand what is going on to me

 

Hi Nicolas, sorry to hear you are having skin problems. I would suggest avoiding any further psychiatric medications, including benzos. Adding anything to your body is likely to upset your nervous system and disrupt your taper. We already know doctors don’t understand the drugs they prescribe and it’s a good idea to keep this in mind when they decide to give us advice. Since you experienced skin problems going on this drug it seems reasonable that they might flare up when you’re coming off it.  Benzos also create a dependency within days and that is a very good reason to avoid them.  I have tagged @Altostrataso she can check in you on about this ☺️

[Altostrata]

@Nicolas45140 if you want us to look at a spreadsheet, put in in a Google Sheet. We do not download anything.

[Nicolas45140]

Hello everyone ! 

A little update since my last reduction. 
3mg !! (5weeks)

well it’s been very difficult the past two or three days…

didn’t change my habits but lots of new symptoms appeared and very disturbing ones. So I hope I will be reassured cause I never been so bad with so many symptoms.  

I start to have dermatographia…I can handle that… 

I start to have intrusive thoughts…comes and goes regularly but quiet disturbing. 
I start to get anger inside me that I have to contain… 

I start to have facial numbness and lips too but it comes and goes. Can handle that.

I start to have Tinnitus but I can handle it 

I start to have vivid dreams…well I think it is vivid dreams but I didn’t remember my dreams or nightmares for the past 20 years so now, I remember some of them. 
fear/dread/anxiety…. Some times…. Well it’s not new but still embarrassing. 
I won’t mention the loss of libido. I forgot what is libido since a long time. 

3 days ago I was in total panic to have lots of these symptoms, I had to take a prazepam to calm me down. 
i don’t know if it’s a wave and windows cycle… or bad time to have but YES it is a very difficult journey and sometimes you just want to get back your drug to stop these symptoms. 

i read a lot and brassmonkey mention WDnormal….when we still having symptoms and bad days… I don’t know if I should pass the next reduction. 

Also to make my potion

3mg -10% = 2,70

3mg -5% = 2,85 

In a little jar…

9ml of water + 1ml of escitalopram liquid 

then to make my 3mg, I’m taking 1,5ml of my mixture.

but if I want to reduce again 

10% : I will have to take 1,35ml well easier to do 1,40. 
5% : I will have to take 1,425ml well easier to do 1,40.

well from 5 to 10% it’s very similar, I might have to change my dilution…. 
help for that too 😉

 

Thank you for all of you helping us to get out of this. 
 

Nicolas 

[Nicolas45140]

Hello 👋 

I had my monthly talk with Dr Mark Horowitz yesterday and I can tell that he is helping a lot.

Because I switched a year ago from Paxil 20mg to lexapro 5mg… (before I heard of SA…), well not same drug and not same dosage to be equivalent so I suffered a bit…

now that I am at 3mg of lexapro… I am still experiencing withdrawal from Paxil… thats terrible… 

face numbness, dermatographia, anxiety/fear/dread, intestinal problems, oesophagial problems, vivid dreams, tinnitus and intrusive thoughts….

that’s a hell of a journey….I was nearly thinking to go back on official dosage of antidepressant. 
good day to all !!

[RachelSusan]

@Nicolas45140 Hi Nicolas,  I am very sorry to read that you are still suffering. That is really awful. I wasn't clear about your final statement. Are you considering increasing the lexapro to the original 5mg or are you considering going back on the paxil, or did I misunderstand?

Edited November 22, 2022 by RachelSusan
spelling

[Nicolas45140]

40 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

@Nicolas45140 Hi Nicolas,  I am very sorry to read that you are still suffering. That is really awful. I wasn't clear about your final statement. Are you considering increasing the lexapro to the original 5mg or are you considering going back on the paxil, or did I misunderstand?

Hello @RachelSusan sorry it wasn’t clear. I meant going back to an official dose so 10mg of lexapro or 20mg of Paxil but I guess it is a silly idea ! 

[RachelSusan]

@Nicolas45140

Nicolas, When I am desperate I come up with all sort of ideas.  I wouldn't call it silly but I would say you must be hurting a lot.  I ask because if you were planning on upping your dose I would suggest you talk to one of the mods.  Once you have been on a low dose for a while then make a large increase you can get really sick.  The symptoms can get much much worse. I know because I did it. How were you feeling in August when you decreased? How were you feeling in October?  If you have been feeling bad this entire time maybe a long hold would help? I hope you get some relief soon.